Legaire, High King of Ireland+ d. 463 (1), http://www.thepeerage.com/p11402.htm#i114018, -----------------------------------------------, Further information: U Nill descendants. However, I belong to the R-L20 haplogroup, which is more common in continental Europe, and not Ireland where R-L21 is dominant. Niall of the Nine Hostages. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. Another, Fiachra, has 4.00. If instead, I want to see if I have Irish ancestry on my fathers side (even though my father has never claimed to be Irish! Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. Geoghegan - Wikipedia [9][10], Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. Daddy of Ireland: The I may be wrong though. niall of the nine hostages 23andme. It is now more commonly referred to as the Northwest Irish/Lowland Scots variety. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. Cookie Notice If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. It is now more commonly referred to as the Northwest Irish/Lowland Scots variety.[15]. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. Of Niall's youth there are many legends, but one in particular show the working of his destiny. distinguish one line of DNA from another. A subreddit about all things genealogy provided it's not about living people. Niall of the Nine Hostages was so named because in his early reign he consolidated his power by taking hostages from opposing royal families. The baby is rescued and brought up by a poet called Torna. [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake.[9]. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[3]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. Fergus and Ailill refuse and return empty-handed. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. Niall reigned for twenty-seven years before being killed by the arrow of a rival, Eochaida, the deposed king of Leinster. Niall Nogallach (Old Irish "having nine hostages") (pronounced [ni%CB%90%CB%88%C9%99l nojilax])[1], or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. McManus, Molloy, Reilly, Rourke and Quinn. Each brother in turn goes looking for water, and finds a well guarded by a hideous hag who demands a kiss in return for water. For more information, please see our [26], Perhaps even more problematic is the dearth of M222 lineages in Midlands samples. Ruling from Tara, Niall's modus operandi for gaining dominance was taking Fergus and Ailill refuse and return empty-handed. Niall was said to have ruled over Tara, but modern historians think it more likely that Tara was founded by Niall's decendents, and that Niall himself actually set up his kingdom at Uisnech, another "royal hill". He is known in folklore as a raider of the British and French coasts. Fiachrae gives her a quick peck, but not enough to satisfy her. Niall Nogallach (Irish pronunciation: [%CB%88ni%CB%90%C9%99l noilx], Old Irish "having nine hostages") [1], or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, theeponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to The Royal History of Ireland. His people were Celts who had escaped domination by the Romans by fleeing north and west. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. Also known as: Niall Nogiallach King of Ireland. While Cairenn is pregnant with Niall, the jealous Mongfind forces her to do heavy work, hoping to make her miscarry. hunting with his four brothers. I am not sure if his father Eochy Moyvone is the same person as shown im other sources namely Echu Mugmedn, so I have shown both. Confirm you are 100% Irish with DNA test | IrishCentral.com He conquered the Uliad aristocracy, which ruled in Ulster, and by this victory and subsequent consolidation of power was able to found a dynasty, the Ui Neill, which gave rise to the O'Neill clan. See: High King Niall: the most fertile man in Ireland by Jan Battles in the Sunday Times of Ireland of January 6, 2006; and If Irish Claim Nobility, Science May Approve by Nicholas Wade in the New York Times of January 18, 2006. [5] Byrne, following James Carney, is a little more precise, dating his death to c. She will The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. The little Irish (Scotic) colony in that part of Alba just opposite to Antrim had gradually been growing in numbers, strength, and prestige - until they excited the jealousy and enmity of the Picts, who tried to crush them. Categories . Cairenn - Wikipedia His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. Can I trust a Haplogroup from 23&Me? - WikiTree G2G Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts Learning about our ancestry is particularly fun when we can toast to it. Thats over eight times the number of people living in Ireland today. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. [6], Early in 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. The association with Niall is based on an outdated study that noted many M222 men have surnames that supposedly come from Niall or his descendants. It is his (Niall's) family.". DNA news -- an estimate of about 3 million men that carry DNA descended from Niall (of his equivalent): http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/niall-of-the-nine-hostages.html, See Niall of the Nine Hostages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages). McManus, Molloy, Reilly, Rourke and Quinn. [2] The chronology of Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn broadly agrees, dating his reign from 368-395, and associating his raiding activities in Britain with the kidnapping of Saint Patrick (ca. More info: https://www.familytreedna.com/landing/matching-niall.aspx. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. Meath) and also captured a Briton, a Gaul, a Saxon and a Scot. historical reality of Niall of the Nine Hostages wasn't proved before the (Remember that women have two X chromosomes while men have one X and one Y chromosome). Just how extensive an area he may have dominated is not recorded but he My R1b P-311 comes from Germany how about German King 23andme? Maternal lines are inherited through mitochondrial DNA both women and men have mitochondrial DNA, but its only the mothers mitochondrial DNA that is passed on to a child. Cairenn Chasdub; Caireann ("curly-black (hair)") was, according to medieval Irish legend and historical tradition, the daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons, the second wife of the Irish High King Eochaid Mugmedn, and the mother of Niall of the Nine Hostages.. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. Cookie Notice Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. fingerprint of Niall of the Nine Hostages in the y-DNA of one in five men Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. Each brother in turn goes looking for water, and finds a well guarded by a hideous hag who demands a kiss in return for water. Distant view of Round Tower at Glendalough, Neill, A recent source shows this Angus as the father of Foghan Owen (also named by that source as Eochaid) Whilest many sources sho the decent through Niall "of the 9 Hostages"? Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. Oliver Hayes. [7 ] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. | Home Page | Disclaimer | Contact | Sitemap |. Niall Nogallach (Irish pronunciation: [%CB%88ni%CB%90%C9%99l noilx], Old Irish "having nine hostages"),[1] or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, was a prehistoric Irish king, the ancestor of the U Nill family that dominated Ireland from the 6th to the 10th century. The O'Neill dynasty (Ui Nill means 'descended from Niall') is an historical Medieval Irish monks supported claims to kingship or property?and gratified the egos?of their noble patrons by plotting their line of descent from Adam and Eve. As next-generation sequencing has become available, various chief lines have been tested. When Maximus and his Roman legions were, in consequence of the barbarian pressure upon the Continental Roman Empire, withdrawing from Britain, Niall, with his Irish hosts and Pictish allies, treaded upon their hurrying heels. least 12 sons. prevalent in the genes of men with surnames that have long been linked to There is a large community of M222 men and a very interesting "family tree" of sorts is emerging as these men get into Y-DNA testing. Could I claim that (a) it's an Irish haplgroup, (b) that it can be traced back to the warring clans of the Ui Neill dynasty? Niall 'of the Nine Hostages', High King of Ireland (1), Niall 'of the Nine Hostages', High King of Ireland gained the title of King Niall of Tara.1 He gained the title of High King Niall of Ireland in 445.1 Children of Niall 'of the Nine Hostages', High King of Ireland, -1. Niall established a royal dynasty which dominated the island for six centuries. I'm stuck at R-P311 and 23andme gives Niall of the Nine Hostages which is flat out DUMB. [5] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. September 10, 2020. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. however, steps right up to the mark, agreeing not only to kiss her but also to My father was born in Hungary, how common is this haplogroup for those with eastern european ancestry? She grants Niall not only water but the kingship for many generationstwenty-six of his descendants will be High Kings of Ireland. Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish high king Lugaid Logde, in Arthurian legend one of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell and in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. The less well-known story has it that they were taken from the Airgialla, a once powerful people who controlled an area loosely centred on present-day Armagh and Tyrone. More recently 23andMe redefined it as R-P311 from an early ancestor associated with group M269. Acceded:445. Although these studies are not coordinated with each other and are ongoing, it is already apparent that not all of these lineages are related to each other within Niall's timeframe. Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. He was one of the greatest of the High Kings of Ireland in prehistoric days, but one of the least known to modern historians. [6] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages.[7]. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. One of [21] However, geneticists today do not believe that the haplotype presented in the Moore paper represents descent from Niall of the Nine Hostages as Niall, being possibly mythical, does not have verifiable remains that can be tested. In fact, researchers have estimated that between 2 and 3 million men with roots in north-west Ireland are paternal-line descendants of Niall.". AFN source shows another son called Foghan OWEN - AFN: 8HRT-NK. Even though I dont have a Y chromosome, I can learn about my paternal line through my biological brothers or fathers DNA. [2] The chronology of Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn broadly agrees, dating his reign from 368-395, and associating his raiding activities in Britain with the kidnapping ofSaint Patrick (ca. There are They worshipped a ram god and sometimes called themselves Ghaisonli ('spear-men'), possibly to compete in propaganda with the Lagini ('lance-men'). Annals of the Kingdom of Ireland by the Four Masters, from the Earliest Period to the Year 1616, eDIL: electronic Dictionary of the Irish Language, Aided Chrimthainn meic Fhidaig 7 Tr Mac Echach Muigmedin, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages&oldid=1139858317. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht,Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. certainty, even if its founder is not. These Connachta later extended their power eastward into the plain of Meath, and under the leader Teutovalos Teachtmhar overthrew the kingship of the Lagini at Tara around AD 300. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne andCoirpre. [27], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. ", Annala Rioghachta Eireann. Perhaps more myth than man, Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. [9], While Niall is High King, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. Women do not have Y-dna. Each brother in turn goes looking for water, and finds a well guarded by a hideous hag who demands a kiss in return for water. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. [3 ] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. The little Irish (Scotic) colony in that part of Alba just opposite to Antrim had gradually been growing in numbers, strength, and prestigeuntil they excited the jealousy and enmity of the Picts, who tried to crush them. [3] A poem by the 11th-century poet Cined Ua hArtacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[3][16] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times.[7]. The southern Venii came to be known as the Eoghanacht, while another group of them migrated north and formed a new kingdom west of the River Shannon where they became known as the Connachta after a revered leader named Conn. Although brought to Ireland against his will, the . the guts to give her a small kiss, for which she grants him sight of Tara and Moore, Laoise T., Brian McEvoy, Eleanor Cape, Katharine Simms and Daniel G. Bradley, O'Grady, Standish H. (ed. The haplogroup that is associated with Niall of the Nine Hostages is M222, which is part of M269 but definitely not the same thing. Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. The Spread of DNA From "Niall of the Nine Hostages". By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. SidmartinBio", "The Adventures of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon", "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", "Show Somerled People | Clan Donald USA, Inc", The genetic imprint of Niall of the Nine Hostages, "If Irish Claim Nobility, Science May Approve", National Center for Biotechnology Information, A Social History of Ancient Ireland, Vol. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. [11] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. Autosomal DNA, which is what we use to measure percentages of ethnicity, only has strong relevance for about 6-10 generations back. [2] He was himself the grandson of King Conn of the Hundred Battles. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising.